Template talk:Translation
A discussion is needed
[編輯]- user:WikiCantona's message at 20070610172201 * :)---Hillgentleman | 書 , 二零零七年六月十號(星期日), 格林尼治標準 09點33分24秒
- 有嘢講：/Comment：
Hello, I agree you what you said on 『咁樣合理啲； template:translation係開始譯時用嘅』. But the way you did it creates confusions, disrespects other's practice and ignores the wiki process. Template:translation and Template:translating pretty much the same things - use interchangably. Such practice may not be right and may be problemic, however, it has been done, a practice with history. But, you cannot make it right by changing the template while affecting tens if not hundred of articles using the translation templates. The new template may make the article confusing. Since the article has been translated intao half way, now the template translation really confuse the reader about the article. Is it translating or just what I need to do. The modification of the template:translation change the rule of the game entirely. It is not fair to reader and author of articles whose intend only to say it is translating.
One way of looking at it, changing a widely used templates disrespect other's practice (which may not be a most logical one), hence, disrespect to other and entire wiki process based on community consensus. Another way of looking at it, it is good for you bringing up the illogical practice before but rather in an unwiki way.
--WikiCantona 2007年6月10號 (日) 09:22 (UTC)
What I did was fine. Check :special:whatlinkshere/template:譯緊 - there is nothing.
[編輯]- 有嘢講：/Comment： Wikicantona, The message on my page Cellular automata was wrong. Thus I changed the redirect. I checked the special:whatlinkshere/template:譯緊 before the edit. No page was actually using the redirect. Nobody has used it. Perhaps never. And I was the only author.
If we don't change it now, it would create confusion in the future. Thus en:Wikipedia:Ignore all rules and en:SNOW. --* :)---Hillgentleman | 書 , 二零零七年六月十號(星期日), 格林尼治標準 09點30分12秒
- 有嘢講：/Comment：
Sorry, misunderstanding. I was not talking about template:重譯緊 which is fine. The problem is with Template:translation. You changed template translation created confusion!!!, Many links to that [1]. The change you made is this one [2] which I feel problematic.
I am not saying that because it's always been and then should not be changed. Changes should also be considered the consequences of it. That is, the confusion introdues into the tagged article. At the least the changes should follow the wiki process (to reach consensus, for this one I believe you have the right move). At least one can do, when changes that template, make a note and correct the page links to it... anyway...
--WikiCantona 2007年6月10號 (日) 10:01 (UTC)
Please be specific. Where is the problem?
[編輯]- 有嘢講：/Comment： I did only two things: 1. introduced the variable. 20181129210313 - see m:help:variables for its use; 2. deleted two redundant words 積極.
--* :)---Hillgentleman | 書 , 二零零七年六月十號(星期日), 格林尼治標準 10點08分56秒
- 有嘢講：/Comment：
Since the article may has been translated into half way, now the template translation really confuse the reader about the article. Is it translating or just what I need to do. The modification of the template:translation change "the rule of the game in the middle of it". It is not fair to reader and author of articles whose intend only to say it is translating.
e.g. 英國國籍法與香港 the template:translation is intend to say "translating" since the use of translation is the same as translating before you make the changes. The problem is introduced by your changes. Wikipedia:問 after pressing the link...the blank page is confusing... Pages with these problem are many. okay.
--WikiCantona 2007年6月10號 (日) 10:54 (UTC)
This is due to the edits by user:shinjiman after mine.
[編輯]- 有嘢講：/Comment： The cause is this edit [3] and thereafter.
--* :)---Hillgentleman | 書 , 二零零七年六月十號(星期日), 格林尼治標準 11點26分45秒
- 有嘢講：/Comment：
Thank you for your info. I will ask Shin... Sorry for bothering you.
I know what you mean. Proposed solution: new template
[編輯]- 有嘢講：/Comment： Let us have a new template, called template:translate, and revert this to the old one. I cannot read Zhong Men at this moment.
--* :)---Hillgentleman | 書 , 二零零七年六月十號(星期日), 格林尼治標準 11點31分29秒
For the template changes, it's adopted from en:Template:Translation. It's not quite acceptable that many articles are just use the Translation template, without providing the translation source, and they are abusing the usage of the template (this is is especially happened on this template, which adopted from the old revision in the Chinese Wikipedia). As I only changed the layout of the template, it depends on the source is provided or not. If the source parameter is provided, it will shown the source that included in the article, and the translation progress can be included in the template also, by providing the second parameter. btw please see the 新世紀福音戰士 article for the example. :) --Shinjiman ⇔ ♨ 2007年6月10號 (日) 23:57 (UTC)
People have good reasons and are in good faith to change things. That is not the point. The problem that the changes created are not intended or anticipated by the changer. The plain result is that the translation tag in the article are confusing and meanigless in many situations. Anyway, anyway to fix it quickly the easy way other revert the changes or replaced the template in article manually?
May I ask a question first, what is the purpose of the link theArticle/問? I don't get it. What is the purpose of this template anyway, in it plain form, 中國 for example makes no sense at all--WikiCantona 2007年6月11號 (一) 00:49 (UTC)
The link to the Wikipedia:翻譯 is intended to link to the subpage of the translation requests, it's similar to en:Wikipedia:Translation. However it is not quite done yet, I will create that later. It is confusing that the editor/creator adds the {{Translation}} tag without telling where the translation source is, this would makes the problem, and confuses other readers, and thinks about "Where this article translated from?". As my changes, it has changed that the translation source parameter becomes mandatory, other than the optional values. --Shinjiman ⇔ ♨ 2007年6月11號 (一) 01:21 (UTC)
Article without source parameter are the majority. The editor or creator might have created unknown sources problem. This existing problem in the existing articles will not easily be fixed by introducing the manadatory parameters. In the meantime, it creates some new problem of confusion, it breaks the previous articles. Is there any way to improve the Template such that it will work in the existing non-parametered articles, yet to prevent the "no source problem" in the future ? --WikiCantona 2007年6月11號 (一) 01:59 (UTC)
2018年revamp
[編輯]簡化個模啦不如？WP:翻譯根本冇人打理。所以我建議廢除畀條鏈人開版求翻譯嘅做法。參考英文版revamp，個模嘅功能就係1 出條橫額 2 加個追蹤類 3 如果有畀source，畀條link過去。--Roy17 (傾偈) 2018年11月29號 (四) 21:03 (UTC)